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Old 06-03-2016, 05:52 PM   #1
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see ANYONE getting 50+% hits, 200m dodger?

never going to happen, man. That's in DAYLIGHT, without smoke, nobody firing back, nobody sneaking up behind you, while you make all that noise and focus solely on your front, with ear protection, no wind or mirage. All this perfect condition, take all day, no worries about other enemies, stationary target bs is just that, bs.

If you don't HAVE to make the shot, why fire at ALL, as a survivalist, hmm? If you DO have to make the shot, why IMAGINE that it won't be mirage, or wind, or a cover user, or a dodging many? Any ONE of those conditions is enough to make you miss at a lousy 300 yds, no matter who you are or what gear you have. That's an effing FACT, jack. If you're stupid enough to pick a bolt action, you're bound to run into stuff that requires rapidfire, and then your stupid effing bolt action will belong to somebody else, cause you'll be dead.

wtf says you'll GET to go back some place and swap that bolt action for an ak, hmm? who says that when you go back there, everything won't be stolen, on fire, trashed?
 
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:53 PM   #2
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200m as erratic as can be imagined is an easy shot with mid-level knowledge.
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Old 06-03-2016, 06:05 PM   #3
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sure it is, boyo. :-) impossible to calculate the lead, when you can't tell if he's moving 30 fps or 20 fps, changing angles every 1/2 second. all you can do is fire and hope, same as anyone else. which is why I said 50%. in other words, LUCK hits.
 
 
Old 06-03-2016, 06:09 PM   #4
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fast men run the 100 yd dash in 10 seconds. 30 fps average and they are not at full speed for the first 2 seconds, either. Longest stride probably 6 ft or so, 5 steps per second, in other words. You can easily change directions every half a second. plenty enough of a change to make a rifleman miss you over half of the time.
 
Old 06-03-2016, 06:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
sure it is, boyo. :-) impossible to calculate the lead, when you can't tell if he's moving 30 fps or 20 fps, changing angles every 1/2 second. all you can do is fire and hope, same as anyone else. which is why I said 50%. in other words, LUCK hits.
It's really not.

If you could try it you'd know. Changing angles every half second is even a good thing that makes it easier; enough to turn a combat effective hit into a critical one. Human physiology dictates it.
 
Old 06-03-2016, 06:10 PM   #6
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let a few bullets come within a few feet of you, kicking dirt in your face, and all that "precision" bs you put out will squirt out where it should be coming from, instead of from your mouth.
 
Old 06-03-2016, 06:12 PM   #7
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let a few bullets come within a few feet of you, kicking dirt in your face, and all that "precision" bs you put out will squirt out where it should be coming from, instead of from your mouth.
I have literally done this as part of a course, admittedly under the trust I wouldn't be killed, and identified where and sent one back for a hit on a nearby target.

Being able to turn off emotion and do what you need to do is important. In both shooting and life.

And who would know you're even there if you do your part in the first place.
 
Old 06-03-2016, 06:18 PM   #8
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there's an effing REASON why there's belt fed mgs, belt fed grenade launchers, razor wire, claymore's etc for defending any position by the military. They learned long ago that the riflemen can't get the job done when they face even just a few hundred riflemen who know what to do on the assault.
 
Old 06-03-2016, 06:19 PM   #9
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Not my problem.

Edit to add: Do you think they have that level of training?
 
Old 06-03-2016, 06:21 PM   #10
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that's right, your problem is proving your claim and you can't do so. :-)
 
Old 06-03-2016, 06:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by nikto View Post
that's right, your problem is proving your claim and you can't do so. :-)
I don't have a GoPro on my person 24 hours a day. That would probably reveal wayyy too much kink >.>

Then again, neither do you.

You don't have to tell anyone about it, but hold just inside or just outside leading edge on the most ridiculous mover you can come up with and see what happens.

Also, try to run balls out and turn on a dime, and remember what you learned from the preceding.
 
Old 10-25-2016, 04:50 AM   #12
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I showed you mathematically that it can't be done, and your claim is bs. A man can change direction a little bit, with every step, and 45 degree angle change is possible every 2-3 steps, depending upon speed. you can't tell what his speed is. So all you can do is use tracers, fire lots of shots and HOPE that you get lucky. He can be at 15, 20, 25 fps, and at angles, changing every half second, and there's nothing you can do about it. 600 ft, you've got a 3000 fps load, at BEST it covers the 600 ft in .20 second. But 308 is nothing of the kind. Its 2600 fps at the muzzle, falling to 2200 fps by 200 yds, meaning it needs .33 second to cover 200 yds. if a guy is running across your front, at 20 fps, you'll need 6.7 ft of lead, half that at a 45 degre angle, so what's 3.4 ft of lead look like at 200 yds, hmm? if he's moving 15 fps, and you can't tell his speed at an angle, either, then you'd need 2.5 ft of lead for that same 45 degree angle. he can be changing speed and angle with every other step, at least, and going prone behind some cover or concealment every few seconds, and all the while his friends can be firing at you, it can be dark, etc. So it's bs. at a mere 200 yds, much less the 600 yd that the dreamers CLAIM it can be done. That technique of moving while under fire is taught in every army's basic training manual. So 10s of millions of guys know to do it. and any 10 year old kid can see to use cover, concealment and darkness.
 
Old 10-25-2016, 04:54 AM   #13
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so, no, .30 cal rifles don't offer any real advantage over 223, to offset the weight of the larger bore rifle and ammo, the inability to have one that's concealable, usable (well) with just one arm, the lack of a .22 conversion, the lack of a handy one with silencer attached.. Most 308's lack luminous sights, too, cause the caliber was abandoned as a military rifle rd before tritium sights took off. Given that 223 is now well-proven to be able to handle 1000 yd hits on torsos, the fantasy advantages of a 308 are gone like the smoke that they always were
 
Old 10-25-2016, 05:01 AM   #14
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and just think how wasteful it would be to try this at 400 or 600 yds, hmm? You'd go thru a 20 rd mag for every hit. and it would take so long that many of the enemy would make it to advantageous cover positions and then you'd be effed for sure. The entire idea is stupid, man. If they are fully exposed, stationary, erect, frontal targets, they are unaware of you, so why fire? or if you feel you just have to be stupid, why not get close enough to be SURE of the one hit? Due to wind, mirage, the likelihood of him moving, etc, that means 1/4 mile or closer. Anyone who's a real threat will know better than to be holding still, in the open in daylight. It only takes ONE of a marauding band to know this and he'll teach the others. Their lives will depend upon taking precautions, so how long do you think it will take them to learn these lessons, hmm? 10 seconds, that's how long!

Just stay out of sight during daylight hours. Dont have anything to make your hunk of woods appear to be any different than any other woods. Why would they hang around if so, hmmm? Your premise that you "just have to" secure a given area is based upon your being too lazy/stupid to get underground and stay there during daylight hours. for a year, if shtf. Once a year has passed, so many will be dead that the odds will be MUCH more heavily in your favor when you have to go scrounge, and you'd still be well advised to use darkness and night vision for most of such endeavors. Passive IR will help you notice anyone trying to hide, at that point.

Last edited by justme; 10-25-2016 at 05:11 AM.
 
Old 10-25-2016, 05:14 AM   #15
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overseas, there's almost nobody in the goatherders who knows jack squat about more than 100 yd riflefire and almost nobody has the needed gear, either. so of course they are easy pickings. and the snipers pay no consequences when they miss, either, since they can call in air support/evacuation. You wont have any of that if shtf, so you'd best forget about what the military teaches about such things. there's no REASON to be in open country in daylight in the first place, and you wont have all day, every day, to sit in your hide in the first place. there will be other things that you have to get done.
 
Old 10-25-2016, 05:17 AM   #16
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so restricting yourself to a noisy, 300 win mag BAR is the height of stupidity, and a bolt action is so dumb as to be something only terry would pick. you're not going to have a safe place to leave your other guns/gear. Anyone can slip up on you at night and you have to sleep. What's the 12x scope worth THEN, hmm? it's dark half of the time, and EVERY noisy shot is likely to call in your killers. you need at least 20" of barrel and at least 10" of silencer to make a 300 win mag worth having. really handy, that club will be.

if you go with an 18" 308 and 8" of silencer, you wont have NEARLY the effective range that you "think" you'll have, either. That 6" less barrel hurts the medium velocity 308 worse than it does 223, cause the .30's got 600 less fps to start with. :-) Take away that 300 fps, and your 2600 fps is now 2300 fps, like a .30 ak.

Last edited by justme; 10-25-2016 at 05:41 AM.
 
Old 10-25-2016, 05:28 AM   #17
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More repeats
Who are you fighting this week?
Don't you ever get tired of these war games?
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Old 10-25-2016, 05:53 AM   #18
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by the time you can track the guy in your scope, at such ranges and calculate the lead, he's already changed angles, dropped to prone and is rolling, or changed speed, or somebody's bullet will have kicked dirt in your face. You're just dreaming if you "think" otherwise.
 
Old 10-25-2016, 06:04 AM   #19
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Somebody is in dreamland. Who are you at war with?
 
Old 10-25-2016, 09:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassMan View Post
More repeats
Who are you fighting this week?
Don't you ever get tired of these war games?
Closer to five months between the most recent post and today's 'rebuttal'.
 
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